Headr for 4ac fs question.

I'd say make it fit in the stock location OR (and this is what i prefer) make a two piece unit to replace the header and the down pipe / crossover pipe all the way to the cat flange. I would be down for a diameter increase too, to the same size as the T3 test pipe which i THINK is 2.25" right?

Ace123 wrote:

If I map out this header, do I need to make it fit a stock intake manifold, or are most of the people interested in these wanting a header for a custom intake?

I'm planning on modifying the stock intake manifold, but it will still be the same external dimensions. And most people are running the weber on the stock manifold, so I imagine it would make the most logical sense to build one to fit underneath the stock intake manifold.

@ Eric, I understand you wanting it to be 2.25", but the design is all about trying to get the maximum velocity of the exhaust gases so that they exit the cylinder as quickly as possible. If that doesn't happen to be 2.25", than it's not 2.25". Ace was running a 2.25", but he also has a larger 1.8L capacity with the 7AC and that lumpy cam that has a much higher maximum usable RPM. And the test pipe is just a straight piece of tubed steel with flanges on each end, it's a lot simpler to build that piece.

Ace, do your best, I have high hopes!

Oops i didn't read that question right anyways. Yes make it fit the stock intake manifold and have the point for the support bracket to mount to. I am wanting to do a 7afe too, with a lumpy cam, but i'll probably stay with the stock intake and down draft carb.

Any updates? How's progress?

Still waiting on parts. I need a stock intake manifold

Where ulocated that u can't find intake manifolds? I went to the junk today and saw 7 4ac coomplete, oh and I got headers, maybe I can lend them....... there square round tubes. It looks crappy but the wellds look good enough, I also have a brokenintake manifold, a piece from the flange broke off but it was small, is that good enough?

N3r0.dv@gmail.com wrote:

Where ulocated that u can't find intake manifolds? I went to the junk today and saw 7 4ac [complete]

That better be a joke.

Seriously, Ace123 already has a header. Why the hell would he even be expected to waste any of his free time at a junkyard to pull parts for other people? I thought just offering to even tack one together for people was extremely generous of him.

If it were a high enough priority for anyone in this community, he would have received a manifold from a member months ago. The delay in the process is in no way Ace123's responsibility.

Sorry didn't want it to sound like that,

slowtec wrote:

N3r0.dv@gmail.com wrote:

Where ulocated that u can't find intake manifolds? I went to the junk today and saw 7 4ac [complete]

That better be a joke.

Seriously, Ace123 already has a header. Why the hell would he even be expected to waste any of his free time at a junkyard to pull parts for other people? I thought just offering to even tack one together for people was extremely generous of him.

If it were a high enough priority for anyone in this community, he would have received a manifold from a member months ago. The delay in the process is in no way Ace123's responsibility.

I need a bit of clarification on exactly whats going on here. I see one member willing to make a 4AC header but needs a part for mock up. I see members asking what he needs, why he can't find one himself, and what a cost of final product might be all willing to shell out moneys. Then I see a member getting rather bent out of shape on behalf of the silent builder of said part.

So here are my questions:
1) What is preventing Ace123 from using his own intake manifold?
2) Why should a member dismantle their engine, rendering the car useless in the process, until presumably Ace 123 is done with the manifold and ships it back.
3) Are the new headers free?
4) If not free shouldn't it be the builders responsibility at some point to complete the project regardless of support and tack that to the final price?
5) If Ace123 is willing to pay a small amount for a used intake manifold as stated in his own post, why would paying for shipping a free manifold or going to a U-Pull-It be a hot point of contension for some members?

And now 2 points:
1) If the final product is free to any member who wants one then all the work and effort should be done by the community to make this happen either in the form of capital for start-up or parts scavenging and shipping, etc.
2) If the final product is going to be made and sold for a price and presumably a profit, which is what I presume is the case here, then the builder would have to expect less support from the community by large.
Thats just how business works, no point in getting riled up over a principal thats been in effect for centuries.

For example:
I'm going to make donuts, all chocolate glazed with sprinkles. If you guys provide me with the ingredients I'll make 'em n bake 'em and you guys eat them because we're all buddies and thats what buddies do.
OR...
I'll buy ALL the ingredients, make 'em n bake 'em but then I'll just charge say $1 a donut to cover the cost of ingredients and time and whatnot. We can still be buddies but since I did everything you need $1 to eat with me.

Man, I've been talking about this thing too much. All this will be my last post anywhere near this topic. I'm not speaking on his behalf, just spending time to read his previous posts which answers most topical questions.

1.) Ace123 has a side-draft set up on a 7AC and said in a post that he no longer has the stock one around.
2.) Several members have spare manifolds sitting around. He didn't ask anyone to stop their cars. (And he did suggest the possibility of some free port work on the manifold)
3.) Nope, you'll no doubt have to pay, at the least, for the materials as well as his time spent working on them.
4.) He just offered to help. He never said he was going to open up a header shop. Plus, he's just another member, not a business, he could end up spending a few hundred bucks making a header that he doesn't want and that no one will buy... kind of unfair when he was just trying to help out the community.
5.) Not a hot point of contention for me (I assumed you meant me), it's just pretty obvious that after several months of him having those parts available in nearby junk yards and not doing it, that he has no plans of going and pulling one for himself, so if someone still wants him to proceed they would need to step up. Regardless of if "that's not how business works."

Points:
1.) Final product could never be free, there is always going to be the raw material costs, even if Ace123 didn't charge for labor. And the raw materials themselves aren't going to be cheap.

2.) I have an MBA and am aware of how business works, thank you. But never did he mention that he was going to be opening Ace123's Header Shop. I will be the first to admit that I assumed that it was his experience and knowledge that was being offered here, in the form of design and welding.

Side Note: Nearly every member here is going to have different engine needs. That means that nearly every member will need a slightly different header to operate at it's peak performance/efficiency.

damn, u guys are really getting bent out of shape for this header, take it easy, one will pop up eventually... hey N3r0, hope u enjoy the header, im the guy u bought it from

Holy crap slowtec is awsome.
Also another member of this forum has shipped me a manifold as of yesterday to help with this project, and I will do my best to help that person in return. Im not sure if that person wishes to be made public, and will allow him to do so at his discretion.

Heres the deal with the headers from my perspective.
Im just a dude in a forums building an engine as a hobby. I have an idea and a skill to fabricate. I see a bunch of other people with various levels of skills and knowledge all trying to do the same thing I "did". That being said Ive also been drag racing and fabricating my own parts for my chevy for 6 or 7 years. Ive done that because Ive never really had enough money to buy the best but I thought that I could create something that comes close.
Usually in my experience those parts that I was trying to create were readily available to the public, and I felt I could make a better version than the cheaper one.
Thats no the case here. There is clearly a void and Im willing to do my part to fill it.

Heres the catch though. Just having a waterjet setup to cut the flanges is going to cost me money, not to mention the cost of each flange. After that I have to locate pipe with the proper bends and cut and weld and measure and cut it back apart and try again until I get a header mocked up that I think is good enough. After that I have to take the whole mess down to a mandrel pipe bender where they will disassemble it and then I have to pay alot of money to have a guy map out those pipes into their system. Once thats done they will sell me those pipes per piece. Once thats all done I have to get all of that to my house in my garage and try to create some kind of Jig that will allow me to attach all the pipes and then weld. Then I have to go get some ARGON gas and mig wire and weld it all together, and weld on a collector that I purchase a number of.

This is a cost I may NEVER recover, even if I sale a number of these because from what I can see, there are plenty of people interested in seeing these, there is a small amount of people actually willing to pull the trigger on purchasing one of these. That being said, I don't think its too much to ask for the community im doing all this work for to contribute a minuscule amount if you have an old manifold laying around and a box and a car to get to the post office. EVEN if I were to eventually make some sort of profit on this, which is HIGHLY unlikely, wouldn't you still want to help someone bring to market a product you desire, but have no ability to fabricate yourself, and is not readily available?

See where im coming from?

anyways Ill receive the manifold shortly and ill start mocking something up around the stock intake manifold.

Ill probably do a little at a time and ask for the opinions of the community along the way.

Ace123 wrote:

See where im coming from?

I'm picking up what you're puttin' down! Thanks for clearing that up for all of us.

are they long tube headers or shorty? cuz i want a long tube header.

Yo ACE my package should be at your door step MONDAY. The tracking number was PM'ed to you.

I tried to do this for the JZS147 community but building suspension parts such as RCA's and rear lower control arms but I never received any support from the community; I built my own and they are mine to keep and patent.

I am very glad all of you guys are pulling for something like this, I know all the leg work and R&D that has to be done when making a piece from scratch cause no other companies make those parts.

Muchos Kudos to you ACE123.

so where are we on this at the moment ?

i'm cool with trying a prototype if thats all that is available. or even a deposit if i can get a guaranteed delivery date.

i dont have an issue contributing to an ongoing build of a new item - just let me know some info

even if 10 headers costs $200 to produce each selling all ten sets should be easy - and i'm sure members on here would be willing to pay $300-400 per set. thats a nice profit, so lets get to it :-)