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inagawa



Posts : 188
Join date : 2009-10-21

PostSubject: new to the 4ac, please help out!!!!!!!!!!   Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:23 pm

hello, i'm a little new to carb engines, so i need a little help... i have a 1987 sr5 coupe with the 4ac engine.what my plans were a hp engine rebuild kit with pauter connectting rods and custom turbo spec ross pistons, a turbo grind cam from schinder with double vaule springs and retainers, serrea vavles, a weber outlaw carb, custom headers/turbo manifold(still not really sure though), a 3 inch exhaust pipe with a 2 1/2 test pipe, gt30r turbo with internal wastegate, port and plolish, angle vavle job, new sleeves, adjustible cam gear, rs bov, elecctric fuel pump, apexi ground kit, plusestar pluseplugs, crane inition module and coil pack, 8.5mm sparkplug wires, benson custom sleeves,intercooler, custom carb pressure box for turbo, intake fan, koyo radiator, coolant resvoir tank, enternal engine oil coolers"2 of them"and a few little bits and peices ... i wanted to get some advice on what you think about my plans and anything thing extra..... thanks..
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87AE-82

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PostSubject: Re: new to the 4ac, please help out!!!!!!!!!!   Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:32 am

Do it lets see it.
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serchmarc



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PostSubject: Re: new to the 4ac, please help out!!!!!!!!!!   Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:36 am

inagawa wrote:
hello, i'm a little new to carb engines, so i need a little help... i have a 1987 sr5 coupe with the 4ac engine.what my plans were a hp engine rebuild kit with pauter connectting rods and custom turbo spec ross pistons, a turbo grind cam from schinder with double vaule springs and retainers, serrea vavles, a weber outlaw carb, custom headers/turbo manifold(still not really sure though), a 3 inch exhaust pipe with a 2 1/2 test pipe, gt30r turbo with internal wastegate, port and plolish, angle vavle job, new sleeves, adjustible cam gear, rs bov, elecctric fuel pump, apexi ground kit, plusestar pluseplugs, crane inition module and coil pack, 8.5mm sparkplug wires, benson custom sleeves,intercooler, custom carb pressure box for turbo, intake fan, koyo radiator, coolant resvoir tank, enternal engine oil coolers"2 of them"and a few little bits and peices ... i wanted to get some advice on what you think about my plans and anything thing extra..... thanks..


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NP75
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PostSubject: Re: new to the 4ac, please help out!!!!!!!!!!   Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:19 am

That turbo you list alone costs more than I payed for my SR5. If you are that well funded why stay with the carb? The turbo seems like it might be a tad big as well (supports 500Hp according to one web site). What do you expect the sleeves to do for you? I always have wondered how one decides that Pauter rods are the one to go for.


Last edited by NP75 on Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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carcandymotorsports



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PostSubject: Re: new to the 4ac, please help out!!!!!!!!!!   Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:27 am

gt30r is way too big for 4ac motor and will have hard time spooling fast. if you decide to go turbo stay with gt25 or td04.
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inagawa



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PostSubject: Re: new to the 4ac, please help out!!!!!!!!!!   Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:01 pm

well i kinda got a deal with my cussin on the turbo... it cost me around 450.(no joke), and with the sleeves, i just wanted the bottom block to be reinforced, instead of changing to a 7 rib block...and is that a picture of a 4ac turbo engine or a 3ac engine?
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serchmarc



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PostSubject: Re: new to the 4ac, please help out!!!!!!!!!!   Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:52 pm

inagawa wrote:
well i kinda got a deal with my cussin on the turbo... it cost me around 450.(no joke), and with the sleeves, i just wanted the bottom block to be reinforced, instead of changing to a 7 rib block...and is that a picture of a 4ac turbo engine or a 3ac engine?


Twisted Evil wuuuuajajjaa
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NP75
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PostSubject: Re: new to the 4ac, please help out!!!!!!!!!!   Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:40 am

What are your power goals for the vehicle and what do you intend to do with it (daily driver only, some racing, track only)?

Sleeving the block may do something for you on a Honda, but the 4AC is not a Honda. It has an old school cast iron block, not one of the open deck aluminum blocks with cast in iron liners. Adding sleeves to a 3 rib block is not going to make it the same as a 7 rib block. I am not aware of anyone claiming that they are stronger in the bores anyways, it's mostly extra ribs on the outside and some extra areas are extra thick if memory serves.

It appears to me that you have a lack of basic knowledge. You should get a book like Corky Bell's "Maximum Boost" and read it. It's also a bit difficult to take seriously a 19 year old who lays out a $5-10K list of mods they are going to do. It says fantasy to me, or perhaps mom and dads money.
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serchmarc



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PostSubject: Re: new to the 4ac, please help out!!!!!!!!!!   Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:03 pm

NP75 wrote:
What are your power goals for the vehicle and what do you intend to do with it (daily driver only, some racing, track only)?

Sleeving the block may do something for you on a Honda, but the 4AC is not a Honda. It has an old school cast iron block, not one of the open deck aluminum blocks with cast in iron liners. Adding sleeves to a 3 rib block is not going to make it the same as a 7 rib block. I am not aware of anyone claiming that they are stronger in the bores anyways, it's mostly extra ribs on the outside and some extra areas are extra thick if memory serves.

It appears to me that you have a lack of basic knowledge. You should get a book like Corky Bell's "Maximum Boost" and read it. It's also a bit difficult to take seriously a 19 year old who lays out a $5-10K list of mods they are going to do. It says fantasy to me, or perhaps mom and dads money.


Sad
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inagawa



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PostSubject: Re: new to the 4ac, please help out!!!!!!!!!!   Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:17 pm

kinda harsh ain't it... i mean i didn't know about the sleeves didn't matter on a 3 rib or anything like that, so i take that.. and basics knowledge i do have plenty of, buti'm still young and have alot to learn still and insaulting my inteligence by my age isn't a good thing by somebody older than me.. that's why i was asking for advice... but that's not the point i'm trying to obtain. that was just a statement.. it's done. and alot of what i have listed either i already have in posession, i could get discounted from a friend, or just buy from a bundle " hp engine rebuild kit comes with pauter connecting rods and custom app pistons, etc.." and that's only going to cost 15hundred.. and i wish i had my mother and father type of money, but daddy's dead and mommy's has her own life to worry about, that's why i work for my money... and deadline for my car is mid summer so i have plenty time.. and total cost is maxed out at 7k..oh yeah, the main intent for my car is daliy driving, and highway/track...but no drift or drag. i'll take your word on reserching on the engine more though, kinda why i said on the post "new to the 4ac....." Shocked
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inagawa



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PostSubject: Re: new to the 4ac, please help out!!!!!!!!!!   Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:28 pm

and power goal for me is around 400hp max... it's goin to take alot of tuning and work but this car is my profolio for college, so i really can't back out now... and the turbo i have now supports 300-460hp.. so with a larger displacement, allot of cooling parts, etc it should be good to go..but a question i have is will aftermarket vavle guides work on a 4ac?
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NP75
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PostSubject: Re: new to the 4ac, please help out!!!!!!!!!!   Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:17 pm

I am not knocking you because your young, I am being a bit harsh because your post pegs my bullshit meter(Karate Crimson anyone?). Initially it made it me think that you are about 14 (still would not surprise me). If you can pay for all that stuff with your own legally obtained money at age 19 then I am impressed, especially if your going to college at the same time. I will believe it when I see pictures.

I am not knocking you for not knowing about the 4AC, you can be a master engine builder and not know all the details of a number of different engines . I asked about the liners to see if you gave a sensible answer. If you had a done some research about the 4AC and/or had some general knowledge about liners you should not have given that anwer.

As for saying that you lack basic knowledge I meant about engine mods in general, and I think that's true. It may be blunt and perhaps harsh, but it was a statement not an insult. If you read and understand that book I recomended you would know why a 400HP turbocharged 4AC daily driver is probably not going to be a good idea for a number of reasons.
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serchmarc



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PostSubject: Re: new to the 4ac, please help out!!!!!!!!!!   Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:27 pm

inagawa wrote:
and power goal for me is around 400hp max... it's goin to take alot of tuning and work but this car is my profolio for college, so i really can't back out now... and the turbo i have now supports 300-460hp.. so with a larger displacement, allot of cooling parts, etc it should be good to go..but a question i have is will aftermarket vavle guides work on a 4ac?


inagawa kun
i hope u upload the photos of that build up
really i hope we can see that 4atc running
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87AE-82

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PostSubject: Re: new to the 4ac, please help out!!!!!!!!!!   Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:33 am

I dont think youd get 400 of those mods, I dont think its possible to get that fuel/air mix into the combustion chamber and then out even with a turbo and fuel injection. This engine doesent have the best flowing clyinder head, I think you might be able to get 200-250 maybe with some nitrous, but this is my own option.



About the sleeves I herd something about having sleeves being better in a HP application, I dident ask why so, I dont know if theres any truth to it or not. I do know that putting sleeves in would cost a boat load of money because the block has to be bored then have the sleeves pressed in then the sleeves will probley need to be bored again then honed.


Last edited by 87AE82 on Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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inagawa



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PostSubject: Re: new to the 4ac, please help out!!!!!!!!!!   Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:04 am

i must be one smart ass 14 year old, study , anyways i'll just live with the doubt of people and use it as inspiration... reply to 87ae82, your right about the head and how limited it will be... that's why i planned to get it shaved and angled if i could, ( still reserching on it though), and for the sleeving well i was told it isn't going to work for me, so i have to shell out maybe 1200 for a bottom block(7 rib) and see what i could do from there, other than that plans are still in motion... i didn't really think about a efi coversion,but i think i might see about that.. but thank you for the advice. reply to serchmarc, yes i will post pictures of the whole build up, and information about it.. all that's needs to be done is get the parts together and make sure it's actually going to be a final process.. and also thank you for the support... finally to np75, i'm not in college yet because i'm building the car FOR my college profolio, and also because i have to wait on if i could get palgrants/loans as it is... because trying to be in automotive design ain't cheap, and just basic drawings of concept cars aren't going to knock them off there feet.. but a real working peice of art will. and i understand why 400hp on a 4ac isn't really going to panout too well(heat problems, engine wear, gas, etc), but i am a person that goes beyond expectation, and i'm still young so i could dream 400hp on it and i'll know reality will tell me right or wrong, lol...that type of thing is trial and error for me.. other than that, plans change on me a little on what everybody been telling me, i think my car might be done by late summer now.. still learning on this damn engine, but quick question, can't 4af engine parts be tranfered the 4ac? and if so what parts can be?
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87AE-82

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PostSubject: Re: new to the 4ac, please help out!!!!!!!!!!   Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:53 pm

I'll bust this out for you. Toyota engine codes read like this (4A) 4th generation A engine (C) The clyinder head (4AC).
(4A-F), (4A-FE) (F) is the econmy dual cam head, the (E) means fuel injected with out the (E) means its a carb. (4AGE)
(G) is the H.O. dual cam head. All A series engines have the same main journal size on the crankshaft older 4AGE's All 4AC's and I belive the 4AF all have the same rod journal size Newer 4AGE's have a differnt journal size on the rods as do 4A-FE's and 7A-FE's I not sure if the F and the G engines have the same specs but they are larger than the 3AC and 4AC. All the head bolt patterns are the same and all water and oil passages line up also so any bottom end can be mated to any of the heads and visa versa. The 4age has a forged steel crankshaft and a 8-bolt flywheel. The 4A and 7A share the same bore size of 3.189 or 81mm all other A engines have smaller bores. The 7A uses a larger stroke to achive the 1.8 displacement.This should help you There are other differances, it would take 3 hours to write them, but when it comes down to it they interchange parts just like small block chevy v8 engines.
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inagawa



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PostSubject: Re: new to the 4ac, please help out!!!!!!!!!!   Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:41 pm

hmm... what i was reading was wrong, some website told me the 4af was a single cam engine that had the same displacement as the 4ac, and the only diff was 4af is fuel injected and 4ac was carb...it's hard to research on a engine that's really unoticed,lol thank you though.... would it be possible to convert parts from the 4af (throttle body, intake manifold, pretty much everyting fuel injected wise even ecu..) to the 4ac so itself could be fuel injected? sorry if the question doesn'tmake much sense....it was a very long day
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87AE-82

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PostSubject: Re: new to the 4ac, please help out!!!!!!!!!!   Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:26 pm

No that wont work differnt port patterns on the heads. If you wanted to fuel inject a 4ac youd have to find the parts off a old japanese 4A-E or do what NP75 is doing a build your own and run an afermarket ecu.
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EricsFreeAE86

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PostSubject: Re: new to the 4ac, please help out!!!!!!!!!!   Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:49 pm

Honestly bro, if you're looking for 400whp, build and swap a 3SGTE or SR20DET. It will cost a buttload of cash (and be even more work) to get 400hp from a 4AC than a built swap. Plus you gotta consider your transmission and rear end will explode and kill everybody around.


As much as I hate to say it, it's a lot easier to get that kinda power from something you can easily grab parts for. Here's what I would find ideal: find a totalled Nissan 240SX S13 that someone has swapped in an SR20DET. You've got the engine, trans, wiring, and complete IRS. Swap away! A little funds for custom brackets and hangers, mount up the IRS; and in stock trim you've got a turbo 200hp AE86 ready for tuning.
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inagawa



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PostSubject: Re: new to the 4ac, please help out!!!!!!!!!!   Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:15 pm

yeah true with the back end not taking that type of power....i was thinking about this way before any engine modification, and one of my friends farther's builds transmissions for drag racing ( i was shocked that his car was a 3 speed automatic running nines... Shocked )and he said he'll work on mines for a good price... so i'm stuck with that for the transmisssion for the time being... i still don't have a clue if there's any aftermarket driveshaft availible for the ae86 corolla and i'm just going to shell out the money for a tomei or a kaaz lsd.. and i'll check out on the fuel injection part so i won't have to keep asking you guys stupid question like these... and for the engine swapping, it's been done alot and my goal was to keep the engine and max it out to it's fullest potential.. getting a swap and putting it in with custom mounts and brackets would cost about three to four thousand at that.. that type of money could finish the 4ac pass halfway...
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EricsFreeAE86

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PostSubject: Re: new to the 4ac, please help out!!!!!!!!!!   Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:10 pm

3-speeds aren't bad, I've even raced a few 2-speeds: GO and GO faster! cheers The stock transmission will definitly outlive the stock rear end; although both are likely to fail with the serious power you're looking for. Even though you're friends with a transmission guy, you'd still likely shell out tons of cash to beef up the transmission because of custom parts he'd have to make. The rear end and drive shaft will be the easy part. Supra rear ends are popular swaps and have a variety of ring and pinion combinations and LSD options; not to mention larger brakes, axles, etc. The main drive shaft is super easy. Any driveline shop can take your drive shaft, cut the ends off, cut the tube down, and weld on whatever ends you need to connect any transmission to any rear end. The drive shaft is just a tube with bits on each end. You can replace tube with a longer one or cut it shorter, then reweld the ends.

I understand your goal of wanting to get the best out of what you've got. Every engine swap you can think of has been done. 3SGTE, 1JZ's, 2JZ's, SR20DET, F20c, F22c1, RB20, 25, and 26DET's, KA18DET (one of my fav's), 13b, and of course every variation of the 4AGE family, including some 7A's. A company called JSP even makes mount kits for the F20's and SR20DET swap for around $800.



All that being said, I wouldn't want 400hp in an AE86. It would be useless power; unless you've got a full built chassis and suspension set up and all that jazz. Which, in that case, you no longer have an AE86 but basically a tube chassis race car with an AE86 body. I would be scared to run more than 200hp in one of these little things; and I'm fairly certain just 200hp is more than enough to thrill any driver.
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serchmarc



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PostSubject: Re: new to the 4ac, please help out!!!!!!!!!!   Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:32 am

EricsFreeAE86 wrote:
I would be scared to run more than 200hp in one of these little things; and I'm fairly certain just 200hp is more than enough to thrill any driver.

amen brother

like keiichi san said
about the KTM engineering crx

ABUNEEEEEE!!!!!

lol! lol! lol!
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inagawa



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PostSubject: Re: new to the 4ac, please help out!!!!!!!!!!   Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:57 pm

lol, yeah i heard that alot... this one guy at a car meet in sonics was like are you ready a to die because that type of power in that light car would be death on wheels.. i honestly think a little bit over 300 will do me good...
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EricsFreeAE86

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PostSubject: Re: new to the 4ac, please help out!!!!!!!!!!   Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:01 pm

Man i mean this with all respect so don't get offended. 300 is about all pro drifters and racers use in this car. Unless you have years of professional race training and experience, i would strongly suggest not getting anywhere close to half that. I have driven 300bhp cars on the street, and even with AWD and traction control they can be a handful. I can't encourage you to run an ungodly amount of power if your experience isn't up to it. A few years ago, a young dude was online asking advice on how to raise the top speed of his new M3. Two weeks later he lost control at over 170mph killing himself and his three passengers. Seriously, put your money into driving schools first if you're wanting to make serious power like that. Just my two cents though.
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serchmarc



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PostSubject: Re: new to the 4ac, please help out!!!!!!!!!!   Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:13 pm

i never pushed my gtz to the limit
not for being scared

i didnt had the enough money to tune it right(good aftermarket parts)
and rebuild my wheel bearings,alighment,and all that stuff$$$$$$$$$$$
my gtz has alot of oversteering (scary)

and cause it was my 1st car i didnt wasnt to crash it.

even with his little 140 whp aprox(not dynoed it) and 1100kg
is very very undriveable
specially on curves

but has alot of potencial

my goal is twincharge(yes cause i want to LOL) it in the future (very long future $$$$$$$$)
lol
im not gonna put the estimated hp cause
that depends of my driving


if u r gonna be a grip or drift boy ,why dont u start with 150 and 1000kg basic car to start and see if u can handle it
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