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 Toyota/Subaru GT-86, the AE86 Reincarnation

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ForgottenNova88

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PostSubject: Toyota/Subaru GT-86, the AE86 Reincarnation   Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:58 am

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darko83

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PostSubject: Re: Toyota/Subaru GT-86, the AE86 Reincarnation   Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:05 pm

yeah cant wait.
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DjSpecter



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PostSubject: Re: Toyota/Subaru GT-86, the AE86 Reincarnation   Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:16 pm

Actully since im in here im gonna throw my .02 in. I really dont care for this new car. Nothing and I mean nothing about it resembles the AE86. It may be just a joint project in the subaru/toyota brand but its not to my liking at all. I mean it could at least carry SOME part of the ae86 meaning or styling or anything like it but no. motor being a subaru and fenders saying subaru???????? but toyota brand name? It would of been bad ass if it was a Corolla FT86. But im in no way shape or form happy about this car. But others may be thrilled about it.
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und-R-steer

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PostSubject: Re: Toyota/Subaru GT-86, the AE86 Reincarnation   Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:33 am

DjSpecter wrote:
Actully since im in here im gonna throw my .02 in. I really dont care for this new car. Nothing and I mean nothing about it resembles the AE86. It may be just a joint project in the subaru/toyota brand but its not to my liking at all. I mean it could at least carry SOME part of the ae86 meaning or styling or anything like it but no. motor being a subaru and fenders saying subaru???????? but toyota brand name? It would of been bad ass if it was a Corolla FT86. But im in no way shape or form happy about this car. But others may be thrilled about it.

I know your feelings. It's hard to see it from where the name has been. But, look at it not as a rebirth of the 86, but more like its child. Toyota and Subaru got together and here is what they made. Just like a child won't look "exactly" like its father and mother, more like the perfect blend of both. Whats important, is Toyota has not forgotten what made the 86 what it was. Great handling, perfect balance and driver feedback being the main focus. Now remember, the dual cam motor was never designed by toyota. It was designed and intended for Lotus. Toyota has always had and open mind and open door when they have had performance in mind. It only makes since to collaborate with the leader in todays turbo 4cyl development. Take a look back at what MADE the 2J, a head designed by Yamaha.
I know the styling is a bit on the aggressive side, but a least toyota has excitement and performance in mind. Over all, I'm just glad they threw there hat in the ring for something to compete with the current selection of RWD sports cars today.

Very Happy Over all, we can agree to disagree. I personally, am very excited. I've started saving already. Very Happy
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NP75
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PostSubject: Re: Toyota/Subaru GT-86, the AE86 Reincarnation   Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:38 pm

I don't think it's the child of the AE86. It puts me more in the mind of the Supra. It's sort of halfway between an AE86 and a Supra in size and horsepower. I have seen one in person, they are nice looking cars though. Maybe the adopted child of the AE86 and the Supra.

My main problem with it is the fact that it's not a Toyota design. I don't think that Toyota had much (or anything?) to do with it from a mechanical design standpoint. It's not even really a new design from what I have read. They took an existing Subaru Legacy platform, changed it to be RWD, and put new sheetmetal on it.

In my opinion Yamaha designing the head for the 4AGE and other Toyota engines is not in the same category as this. The 4AGE started out as the 4AC, so it was a Toyota design to start with. And Toyota manufactured the engine themselves. This Toyobaru is badge engineering plain and simple. I don't consider the NUMMI Chevy Nova's to really be a Chevy for example.
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EricsFreeAE86

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PostSubject: Re: Toyota/Subaru GT-86, the AE86 Reincarnation   Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:04 pm

You guys are missing the point of the new car. It's a reinvention, not a redesign. It is the same theory, same feel as the old car. By today's standards, it is very under-powered but also very light weight. The goal was not to make an updated version of the AE86, but to design a car around tge feel and philosopher of the AE86. The styling if modern cars is shaped as much by style as science. Nothing from the 80's really compares to modern cars, what with under trays and wind tunnel tuned side mirrors. I know the Subaru XT Turbo and XT-6 had the lowest (and by a large margin) drag coefficient of any production vehicle... If memory serves, up until the C4 Corvette in the 90's. The point is, the look of the car is not supposed to evoke fuzzy feelings of flip-up headlights and uneven bumper gaps. It is the feel of the car (handling, noise, shifter) that will bring memories of the corners of Mount Akina.
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PostSubject: Re: Toyota/Subaru GT-86, the AE86 Reincarnation   Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:28 pm

I don't expect them to make an AE86 clone in looks, but if they are going to claim that it's the spiritual successor to it I think that it should be closer than it is, and more importantly that it should actualy be a Toyota design. I don't know if it's that underpowered, or that light weight. When I saw it they were claiming 2800lb, which is better than I thought given the fact that it's a Subaru, but still quite a bit heavier than an AE86(~30%). Thats about what my 4 door BMW with an iron block straight six weighs. 200Hp is pretty good for a 2800lb car, a lot better than either a 4AC or 4AGE powered Corolla.
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und-R-steer

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PostSubject: Re: Toyota/Subaru GT-86, the AE86 Reincarnation   Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:24 pm

NP75 wrote:
I don't expect them to make an AE86 clone in looks, but if they are going to claim that it's the spiritual successor to it I think that it should be closer than it is, and more importantly that it should actualy be a Toyota design. I don't know if it's that underpowered, or that light weight. When I saw it they were claiming 2800lb, which is better than I thought given the fact that it's a Subaru, but still quite a bit heavier than an AE86(~30%). Thats about what my 4 door BMW with an iron block straight six weighs. 200Hp is pretty good for a 2800lb car, a lot better than either a 4AC or 4AGE powered Corolla.


Suspect HA ! I knew it ! BMW got there claws into you. ......... Suspect







jk
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PostSubject: Re: Toyota/Subaru GT-86, the AE86 Reincarnation   Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:44 am

I think I agree with understeer & Eric. This marks the end of a ~20yr hiatus toyota took from RWD platforms. It is momentous in its own right (and the fact that subaru agreed to sacrifice AWD is definitely toyota's idea). This is an evolution. It has adapted to new demands and standards, but started from the core philosophy and purpose of the original. Perhaps the survival of the 86 & the supra was to combine forces in this incarnation. Anyway, that's my take (as one who as owned neither an AE86 nor any supra, Rolling Eyes ).
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NP75
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PostSubject: Re: Toyota/Subaru GT-86, the AE86 Reincarnation   Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:55 pm

Quote :
HA ! I knew it ! BMW got there claws into you. .........

I don't know about that. I would not be inclined to buy another BMW.
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NP75
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PostSubject: Re: Toyota/Subaru GT-86, the AE86 Reincarnation   Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:43 pm

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This marks the end of a ~20yr hiatus toyota took from RWD platforms
It's not been 20 years, more like 7 ('05 MR2 Spyder), but I think it's great that they are doing a RWD car. On paper I like everything about the car. I just think that it's embrassing for Toyota that they have to turn to Subaru to get an exciting car made. It seems to me like they are starting to turning into GM (boring cars, re-badging, quality problems).

Quote :
and the fact that subaru agreed to sacrifice AWD is definitely toyota's idea
Subaru has made lots of 2WD stuff, just not lately. It might be Toyota's idea, I have no idea. But even if it is Toyota's idea, that hardly makes it a Toyota design, mechanically speaking. I was thinking that Subaru's interest is becuase of drifting. It doesn't seem like they need another performance AWD car to compete with the already very successful Impreza.
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ForgottenNova88

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PostSubject: Re: Toyota/Subaru GT-86, the AE86 Reincarnation   Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:03 pm

Absolutely right on both fronts NP75. Please forgive my memory lapse of the last MR2. I agree that Toyota should be aware of falling into big-car-corporation tactics of rebadging, but the toyota philosophy is focused around always improving and being fearful of wasteful action (I just finished reading "How Toyota Became #1" by David Magee). Perhaps sitting at #1 has softened their focus, but I can only speculate.

I knew Subaru made 2WD stuff back in the early 90's and prior, but I was under the impression their whole brand was built around "Subaru Symmetric AWD: It's What Makes A Subaru, A Subaru." Maybe I'm wrong and they have a new strategy that will allow them to de-niche and take on RWD. Or maybe they will sell their version turbo with AWD (but this would compete, as you said). I don't know. Excellent questions, though.
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NP75
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PostSubject: Re: Toyota/Subaru GT-86, the AE86 Reincarnation   Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:49 pm

Your right, AWD is their big thing but I think that they could probably do one non-AWD car with out spoiling their marketing strategy.
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ForgottenNova88

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PostSubject: Re: Toyota/Subaru GT-86, the AE86 Reincarnation   Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:56 pm

Just Posted on TopGear's website:

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/subaru-brz-first-drive-review-2011-12-03

Review of the Subaru Version of this coupe; describes the unique features of the Subaru. Also details more about who-did-what in the design/engineering phase.
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maloner

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PostSubject: Re: Toyota/Subaru GT-86, the AE86 Reincarnation   Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:04 am

Just gonna throw in my thoughts since everyone else is.

I think it's great that Toyota listened to Toyota drivers and made an effort to put a performance orientated vehicle on the market, however, I believe that what really makes a Toyota a toyota is the engine (though they weren't the first to have a DOHC) or the designers (credit to yamaha etc). I feel as if I open the hood and see subaru plastered all over the engine bay, I'll feel like i'm driving a subaru.

Basically, I want to see an engine crafted from toyota. I want a dohc inline 4. Not a boxer engine that's hard to work on. The spirit of the AE86 was it's simplicity, boxer does not scream "simplicity" to me. Have you seen that engine bay?! affraid

Maybe I'm rambling, but I feel that Toyota is attempting to profit off the emotions of AE86 fanatics by releasing a car to fill a void in the cheapest, easiest possible manner for them.





P.S. I wish they would have given a "Coupe" and "Hatchback" option.
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