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 4ac and drift??

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slimer

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Join date : 2009-06-22
Age : 35
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PostSubject: 4ac and drift??   Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:18 am

hello all, im new to the world of toyota and rwd and i just picked up a cherry ae86 5 spd. the car is going to be my next project. just wondering if the 4ac with a few mods can make enough power to get sideways?. and if so what's a good combo of parts and where to get them, any suggestioins are helpfull.
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NP75
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PostSubject: Re: 4ac and drift??   Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:39 am

I am no drift expert, but if you want to be able to spin the tires at will with engine power you are probably going to need more than a few mods. But you will need more than a few mods to do that with a 4AGE (the twin cam version) as well. The 4AC puts out about 72 HP at the flywheel stock, the 4AGE about 100. As I said I am no drift expert and don't pretend to understand drifting or what gets you respect in the drifting world, but you can set the car up so that it is easy to slide the rear end which is what would traditionally be considered a slide or a "drift"(by traditionally I mean in the US before drifting was introduced as a sport). As far as being able to spin the wheels, there is two components to that, traction and power. Everybody seems to go at it by maintaining or increasing traction and adding power till the traction is overwelmed, but you could decrease traction as well as trying to increasing power. That may not get you respect in the drift community though. und-R-steer on this forum has done drifting with a 4AC in various states of build, he would have a better idea. He hasn't been on here much lately, I think he is busy putting his car together at the end of latest build up.
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EricsFreeAE86

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PostSubject: Re: 4ac and drift??   Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:43 am

Driver ability and suspension set-up far outweigh engine power in drifting. You can have a 700hp Dodge Viper and suck like Nick Hogan if you can't drive. Remember Pirelli's slogan "Power is nothing without control" that's the rule in any form of motorsport.
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und-R-steer

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PostSubject: Re: 4ac and drift??   Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:44 pm

"Power is nothing without control" that's the rule in any form of motorsport.[/quote]

This is exactly true. NOW, to get started the first thing you'll need is ..."HEART"
Don't let the other corolla guys give you any grief about your engine. Because they WILL.

The first problem is your rear end. You can either swap the axle assembly out for a GTS with an LSD or you can weld / have welded you diff. Your axle choice here is really not important. What is important is being able to lock your rear tires together. Weather it be with an LSD or just a weld job, you won't be able to drift till this is done.

Next is SUSPENTION SUSPENTION SUSPENTION ! ! ! You don't REALLY need a top of the line suspention to drift, but it WILL make your life a whole lot easyer. The car is 20 + years old. Rest assured your rubber bushings are all almost shot. This will lead to lazy responce and sloppy stearing. Mostly understeer. .... Which you DON'T want. Suspentions range in price for every budget.

Lastly .....power. Beleave it or not....... with a 32/36 webber conversion, a 272 deg cam with race springs and a 2 1/4 exahust is enough to get you going. Thats actually the base line upgrade for this engine. Very Happy If you lighten up the car a lil more, you ready to take on any beginer course, or late night street session. Very Happy
Evil or Very Mad I don't condone street sessions.

A friend of mine here on the site has GREDDY coilovers and just what I've mentioned above for engine mods and he's KILLING IT !

Here is his test vid. afro And no, thats not a turbo you hear, it's a whistle tip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbyI07ELmkY

sorry for the spelling.... I'm exhausted. Sad
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NP75
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PostSubject: Re: 4ac and drift??   Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:06 pm

I am sure thats it's a given that others will give you shit about your 4AC, but will they give you shit if can't make a smoke show in second and third gear(or first for that matter)? I have seen people talking about drifting and they seem to think if you not doing power induced oversteer it just not the real thing. Is it about oversteer in general or does it have to be power induced? What do think about reducing grip(air pressure changes, anti-roll bar changes, less wide and less stickytires, etc.)? If I was to try drifting with a 4AC I would get the smallest diameter tires available, which has the same effect as putting in a numerically higher rear end ratio. Sumitomo makes (or used to) a cheap 175-50-13 tire, its like 20" tall and probably does not have large amounts of grip. It should make it some what easier to break em loose under power. I would then get the numerically highest rear end ratio I could. Get what ever power you can out of the 4AC, and then mess with suspension and tires pressure to get the rear end easy to break loose.


Last edited by NP75 on Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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und-R-steer

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PostSubject: Re: 4ac and drift??   Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:49 pm

Drifting is actually judged on 5 different levels.

First and most important. "Entry speed" If your not hauling @$$, your not very good.

2.) "ANGLE" Just how far out can you hang before loosing it and spining out.

3.) "Race Line" Are you actually in control of where your going, or just hanging on for the ride. Also, if you are in control, are you using the fastest and most aggressive approche or just play'n it safe.

4.) "Smoke !" Smoke is just another way of judging just how hard your pushing it. If your car is underpowered and can't make tons of smoke it's ok. Make up for it with aggression.

5.) "STYLE" Are you all over the place and crazy or cool and smooth with crisp snapy steering and continous transition between corners.


This is how drifting is judged.

Technique to individule car set up veries and is a bit complex. YES, tire size and sticky are KEY to geting everything out of your suspention. Tuning them together to your personal driving style can take years to perfect. For a beginner set up, I would sugest sticky tires up front and harder compound for the rear. Don't change your rim size any wider untill you upgrade your power a bit more or you'll just set yourself back with difficulty.

Drifting isn't about just oversteering around every turn. Drifting can actually be viewed as more of a refined driving art. It takes lots of practis and a good bit of dedication. It's a balancing act of a perfectly controled loss of highspeed traction.
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NP75
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PostSubject: Re: 4ac and drift??   Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:11 am

Thanks for all the info.
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slimer

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PostSubject: Re: 4ac and drift??   Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:40 am

thanks for the info guys, i have decided to keep the 4ac in it now, and i have a plan of attack. im gonna go with the paradise racing head package(cam,valve springs, carburetor) and do a mild port and polish. also goin with the brd header and a full 2 1/4 exhaust to an apexi n1 muffler that i have laying around. also i seen flywheel and clutch kits pretty cheap, haven't decided on one yet but i will be replacing those as well. as for the diff i'll just weld it. i did this on my drag crx and it's better than any lsd i ever had. i have already stripped the car down (let me know if anybody wants any interior pieces). i couldn't find any parts for the bottom end of our motors. a nice set of 11.0 n/a pistons .20 over would complete my setup i think, any options out there?
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NP75
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PostSubject: Re: 4ac and drift??   Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:08 am

No one sells anything for the 4AC as a standard item on lower end internals. Pistons are easy to get made custom though, many places will do them $400-500 for a set(Wiseco, Arias, CP, etc). If you want to go budget you could try putting early 4AGE pistons in. I have not tried this myself but I have heard that it works. The basic sizes are the same, the only issue would that the piston is slightly domed and not dished like the 4AC so there is some risk it might cause intereferance with the head and or valves. It probably would not give you 11:1 compression though, maybe 10:1?

If your sticking with the SR5 rear end you will want to look into getting the numerically highest ratio you can. I believe that the stick shift cars come with a 3.9:1, and the automatics have a 4.1:1, you might look into getting a wrecking yard year end with the higher ratio.
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87AE-82

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PostSubject: Re: 4ac and drift??   Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:11 pm

My FWD corolla will smoke the tires all the way down the street i figured the rwd would too.
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slimer

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PostSubject: Re: 4ac and drift??   Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:56 pm

87rolla wrote:
My FWD corolla will smoke the tires all the way down the street i figured the rwd would too.

what are your mods and what size rims and tires are you runnin? i think i'll probably go with a set of 13x7.5s.
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87AE-82

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PostSubject: Re: 4ac and drift??   Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:13 pm

A magnaflow muffler, but it also has to be reved over 3500 and its not very good for the stock clutch and probley not the engine either.
the tires are stock size.
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NP75
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PostSubject: Re: 4ac and drift??   Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:29 pm

Quote :
has to be reved over 3500 and its not very good for the stock clutch and probley not the engine either.

I would worry more for the trans and the axles.
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AE8valveSOHCA

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PostSubject: Re: 4ac and drift??   Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:50 pm

man i bought my 87 corolla for $700 right... fully bone stocc nothin done at all but a 3au swap from the original owner and then i fully guted it with no ac or pwr steering and stock 13" dummies that came with original bald tires and one seat haha... the thing hauls ass... well for me anythins fun just bring out the full potential til you fucc somethin up then hopefully make it faster... i go sideways when i dont want to... im not a drifter... but i try sometimes but not too hard... but imma grip til i have to counter-steer ya kno.
ohh yeah... i have a 450 pound cousin who loves it and he drives a single cam non vtec 97 civic coupe haha... even he chirps 2nd gear in my buccet... people tell me my car is smooth and easy to drive... i dont know... my shits tight...
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redstardriftar

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PostSubject: Re: 4ac and drift??   Thu May 19, 2011 12:55 pm

Instead of weldin buy a spool from weirperformance.com and Im also in the design stage of a rear water dispersment system over my rear tires to give that wet weather fun all the time.
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